Who is more ethical, Daredevil or the Punisher?

The question should really be, “whose approach to justice is more ethical?” Or even, “Whose actions are more ethical?”

Regardless, for those who don’t know, Daredevil  is a comic book hero as well as a character in a Netflix tv series by the same name. He was blinded by radioactive goo when he was a child but his other senses were heightened by the same accident. As an adult, he is a lawyer by day but a superhero vigilante by night. He lives in a crime ridden area but he does not kill “bad guys” but turns them over to law enforcement. He believes in using the justice system to deal with criminals but often finds law enforcement and the justice system ineffective at putting away these criminals.

In season 2 of the Netflix Daredevil show, a new character, The Punisher, is introduced who has a fundamentally different approach to the Daredevil. The Punisher also goes after bad guys but does not apprehend or arrest them, he kills them. The two characters have the same interest in dealing with crime and often have the same targets but think about justice, morality and ethics differently.

This disagreement is often the conflict in superhero narratives that pit the Consequentialists with the Deontologists.

In order to explore the questions mentioned above, consider the following: Below are two scenes from the tv show in which the two characters talk and argue about their competing approaches.

Download Handout: Punisher vs Daredevil Handout

After that, a couple of articles about the same question.

Why The Punisher Is ‘Daredevil’s’ Most Moral Character

“The only moral thing to do to criminals who murder at will in a world where the government authorities are, at best, ineffective or, at worst, corrupt is stop them for good. Kill them. Make sure they can’t kill any innocent people ever again”

http://thefederalist.com/2016/04/28/why-the-punisher-is-daredevils-most-moral-character/

Mistaking the Punisher as Moral

“That said, is Frank Castle morally justified /inside the bounds of the world he is placed/ to be an ultraviolent vigilante? You have said yes — because there is no system of justice to appeal to. In a world where the way government is executed is utterly corrupt and at the same time the mechanisms for gaining justice are utterly shrouded in unknowns (and my in fact be unobtainable), it seems to be your view that the individual is then morally obligated to take matters into his own hands.”

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sokbd8

Daredevil’s Meditations on Morality

This article focuses more on the Catholic roots of Daredevil’s ethics rather than contrasting him with the Punisher.

“Far from being a killer in the shadows however, his Christian faith instils in him a morality of sin and repentance, which is why he never kills.”

http://www.popmatters.com/feature/daredevils-meditations-on-morality/

How Netflix’s New Daredevil Series Makes Torture Into a Virtue

This article also has a different focus from the question but still informs the question of whether the Daredevil behaves ethically. His use of extra judicial physical punishment and torture is central to his character. Though he comes short of killing “bad guys,” is he behaving ethically?

“But even if Daredevil is not an agent of the state, his use of torture still serves (and arguably even validates) official power. The Kingpin’s final downfall is engineered when Daredevil terrorizes a witness into turning state’s evidence. The guy agrees after Daredevil threatens him—and then the hero hits him another few times, just to emphasize the righteous motivating force of unaccountable brutality. The episode then moves on to a collage of FBI agents rounding up the bad guys.

“The hero tortures and that torture races through the legal system, righting wrongs. Information gained through torture is not a poisoned fruit; it’s justice itself.”

http://reason.com/archives/2015/04/21/how-netflixs-new-daredevil-series-makes

Human Gene Editing Receives Science Panel’s Support

“In a report laden with caveats and notes of caution, the group endorsed the alteration of human eggs, sperm and embryos — but only to prevent babies from being born with genes known to cause serious diseases and disability, only when no “reasonable alternative” exists, and only when a plan is in place to track the effects of the procedure through multiple generations.

“Human genetic engineering for any reason has long been seen as an ethical minefield. Many scientists fear that the techniques used to prevent genetic diseases might also be used to enhance intelligence or create humans physically suited to particular tasks, like soldiers.”

What We’re Fighting For: Our acts of moral courage defend America as surely as any act of violence.

“From our founding we have made these kinds of moral demands of our soldiers. It starts with the oath they swear to support and defend the Constitution, an oath made not to a flag, or to a piece of ground, or to an ethnically distinct people, but to a set of principles established in our founding documents. An oath that demands a commitment to democracy, to liberty, to the rule of law and to the self-evident equality of all men. The Marines I knew fought, and some of them died, for these principles.”

We Asked an Ethicist if It’s OK to Punch Nazis in the Face

“But this punch inspired a lot of debate. If you think nonviolence is generally the answer, is it OK to hit someone if you really, really don’t like them? On the other hand, if you disagree with socking Nazis in the face, are you giving a pass to literal fascists? If you’re conflicted about all this, is it still OK to giggle at the whole thing?

“To settle this, I called up Randy Cohen, the former ethicist from the New York Times Magazine, and the person I generally ask when confronted with moral quandaries.”

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/we-asked-an-ethicist-if-its-ok-to-punch-nazis-in-the-face?utm_source=vicetwitterus

In movies, punching is the way to deal with Nazis. Reality is more complicated.

“We’ve seen it so many times before that our reactions are instinctive, no matter the brutality. When Nazis go down, our spirits lift. Theaters full of people clap and whoop. Movies have taught generations of film-goers to revel in righteous violence.

“Things are a little more complicated in the real world.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/02/01/in-movies-punching-is-the-way-to-deal-with-nazis-reality-is-more-complicated/?utm_term=.054d12f4e6d3&wpisrc=nl_draw2&wpmm=1

Antifa Violence Is Ethical? This Author Explains Why

We have seen multiple occasions of violence against white nationalists and Trump supporters in general from so called “Anti Fascists.” Some argue that the violence we witnessed was a reaction to violence directed at them which can easily be justified. Other, like the article linked below, argue that preemptive violence against those with some ideologies is justified.

“What I’m trying to say is that the various differing ways anti-fascists go about resisting fascism are legitimate to be considered, that they are historically formed and ethically reasonable. I try not to wade too far into “What about this and what about this.” I like to leave it as general as “I support collective self-defense against fascism and Nazism.””

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/amp/antifa-violence-ethical-author-explains-why-n796106

Why you shouldn’t punch a Nazi

“Yet another Nazi-punching video is making the rounds on the Internet, to cheers from quite a few people on the left. The clip, shot in Seattle, shows a man in a swastika armband getting knocked down with a punch to the face as he tries to talk to the assailant. Using violence to stop someone who espouses a violent ideology, many say, is legitimate self-defense. The man in the clip may or may not have been acting aggressively before the start of the video. It’s also unclear whether he is an actual neo-Nazi or simply mentally ill.”

https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2017/09/23/why-you-shouldn-punch-nazi/sjghT8vcvVkpbJWMiOrEqN/amp.html

Is It OK To Punch a Nazi? We Asked Berkeley Students

A year after fiery political protests erupted on campus, we visited to find out when students think it’s OK to respond to words with violence.

https://reason.com/reasontv/2018/02/16/ok-punch-nazi-berkeley-students-campus

And one last video on the topic…

 

 

TED Talk: Paul Knoepfler: The ethical dilemma of designer babies

 

“Creating genetically modified people is no longer a science fiction fantasy; it’s a likely future scenario. Biologist Paul Knoepfler estimates that within fifteen years, scientists could use the gene editing technology CRISPR to make certain “upgrades” to human embryos — from altering physical appearances to eliminating the risk of auto-immune diseases. In this thought-provoking talk, Knoepfler readies us for the coming designer baby revolution and its very personal, and unforeseeable, consequences.”

Have a Moral Dilemma? Start with Your Gut Reaction, but Don’t Stop There

“Helping someone in desperate need is an ethical choice, yet it is a choice we would all make without hesitating, i.e. thinking a single thought. The reason, according to Harvard Law Professor Glenn Cohen, is that ethical choices start in the gut. Our intuition, programmed my millions of years of evolution, instructs us what to do without needing rational deliberation. But at times, especially when making an ethical decision implies a sacrifice on our behalf, rational deliberation is necessary, and likely inescapable.”

http://bigthink.com/videos/glenn-cohen-on-ethics-101-and-being-our-best-selves

‘Miracle on the Hudson’ legacy: 70,000 slain birds

What does this article say about how we value the lives of animals when compared to the lives of humans? This article points out that many birds have been killed to keep people safe but these methods have been ineffective. What if they had been effective? Would they have been justifiable then?

“An Associated Press analysis of bird-killing programs at the New York City area’s three major airports found that nearly 70,000 gulls, starling, geese and other birds have been slaughtered, mostly by shooting and trapping, since the 2009 accident, and it is not clear whether those killings have made the skies safer.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/miracle-hudson-legacy-70-000-slain-birds-122453379.html

The Lingering Stench of Torture

“United States military and counterterrorism officials have never forgotten where that detour into darkness led — unreliable intelligence, demoralized interrogators, terrorists who still cannot be tried in a court of law because they were tortured and a stench that still clings to America’s counterterrorism reputation these many years later.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/13/opinion/the-lingering-stench-of-torture.html?login=smartlock

Ethics of blowing up the Death Star on Imaginary Worlds Podcast

“Think of all the movies and TV shows that have referenced Star Wars. Most of those scenes are pretty forgettable, except for a scene in the 1994 film Clerks, which set off a debate that’s still going on today. One of the characters notes that the second Death Star was still under construction when it got blown up. So there must have been independent contractors there trying to finish the job. Is it fair if they got killed too? Judge Matthew Sciarrino, Josh Gilliland of Legal Geeks and economist Zachary Feinstein discuss the value “good guys” should place on the lives of “bad guys.” ”

http://www.imaginaryworldspodcast.org/workin–on-the-death-star.html